There are no barbs in this old wire. Zen is really fishing without hook.
Speaking of which, it's Day 2 of the current 100 days and here's the first post on the Genjokoan. I'll be posting a summary of the work from the Thursday night Genjokoan study group, usually on Fridays. During the next week, the local and virtual participants will post comments.
Usually these posts will be more focussed on the Genjokoan. In this first session, however, we had a number of house keeping items and I'll just go ahead and offer some of that here. I get into the Genjokoan toward the bottom.
Last night we sat and then performed the memorial service for Katagiri Roshi. He died nineteen years ago on March 1 (see below for more on the ceremony). Then as usual we had tea, Shodo brought some spice cake, shared the offerings from the ceremony, and talked.
The first topic of conversation was about whether to record the sessions as some in the virtual practice have requested. The point of meeting and studying together, as well as listening to recordings of such discussions, imv, is to learn how to do dharma introspection and then hone our skills joyfully rolling with the dharma - alone and together.
We're not so sure that our study sessions will help. It wouldn't be like listening to a dharma talk, more like a conversation (wiggling around the sacred and mundane), so listeners might not find it very interesting. Also we apply (intwine) the dharma with our personal lives and talk about that. This is a direction we want to develop in our small group and are concerned that recording the sessions will damp that down or put more out there than we feel would be appropriate.
Almost everyone deferred to me (while stating their concerns). With my interest in post-modern power, I didn't want to make this kind of decision and impose it on the group. So I decided to continue the conversation and consideration process. I'll report more about this later.
Then we talked about practice commitments. We're coming from almost three months "off" and so everybody seemed eager to ramp up the focus and time spent on formal practice. We're also going to begin finding "capping phrases" to express our practice each week. The capping phrase is an aspect of koan practice. After a student has seen a koan, the traditional Rinzai Zen teacher will ask them to find a capping phrase to test and/or express their understanding.
In the Soto Zen Genjokoan context, we'll be using the capping phrase to express the student's understanding of the issue at hand, the week's practice. For example, one student last night brought this: "Put on your clothes, eat your food," Zen Sand 4.394. Then students will be asked to present how that fits for their practice.
Finally, we got around to working a little bit with Genjokoan. We're beginning with the second paragraph:
"To convey the self toward the 10,000 dharmas to do practice/verification is illusion.
The 10,000 dharmas advancing and practicing/verifying through the self is satori."
For now, I'm going to make three points on the translation and then the provide practice instructions and a focus for comments by participants. I'll leave playing with the meaning of this passage to your own your discovery.
Last night we sat and then performed the memorial service for Katagiri Roshi. He died nineteen years ago on March 1 (see below for more on the ceremony). Then as usual we had tea, Shodo brought some spice cake, shared the offerings from the ceremony, and talked.
The first topic of conversation was about whether to record the sessions as some in the virtual practice have requested. The point of meeting and studying together, as well as listening to recordings of such discussions, imv, is to learn how to do dharma introspection and then hone our skills joyfully rolling with the dharma - alone and together.
We're not so sure that our study sessions will help. It wouldn't be like listening to a dharma talk, more like a conversation (wiggling around the sacred and mundane), so listeners might not find it very interesting. Also we apply (intwine) the dharma with our personal lives and talk about that. This is a direction we want to develop in our small group and are concerned that recording the sessions will damp that down or put more out there than we feel would be appropriate.
Almost everyone deferred to me (while stating their concerns). With my interest in post-modern power, I didn't want to make this kind of decision and impose it on the group. So I decided to continue the conversation and consideration process. I'll report more about this later.
Then we talked about practice commitments. We're coming from almost three months "off" and so everybody seemed eager to ramp up the focus and time spent on formal practice. We're also going to begin finding "capping phrases" to express our practice each week. The capping phrase is an aspect of koan practice. After a student has seen a koan, the traditional Rinzai Zen teacher will ask them to find a capping phrase to test and/or express their understanding.
In the Soto Zen Genjokoan context, we'll be using the capping phrase to express the student's understanding of the issue at hand, the week's practice. For example, one student last night brought this: "Put on your clothes, eat your food," Zen Sand 4.394. Then students will be asked to present how that fits for their practice.
Finally, we got around to working a little bit with Genjokoan. We're beginning with the second paragraph:
"To convey the self toward the 10,000 dharmas to do practice/verification is illusion.
The 10,000 dharmas advancing and practicing/verifying through the self is satori."
For now, I'm going to make three points on the translation and then the provide practice instructions and a focus for comments by participants. I'll leave playing with the meaning of this passage to your own your discovery.
The above is my translation, based on an old character study that Roshi gave me long ago, informed by several modern translations. I see this as a practitioner's translation, appropriate for those who want to take some time to work with Genjokoan close to the original bone and discover the meaning through the heart mind body in actual practice.
First, the translations by most moderns don't translate "shu-sho" or practice/verification. I find this strange. Maybe the translators were trying to make it easier to understand. However, this is a key teaching of Dogen so to leave it out leads the reader and practitioner astray.
Second, I've also included the original "10,000 dharmas" rather than "all things" or "myriad dharmas" because, for me, the number suggests each thing , each of the many things, as truth. "All things" is just too mushy to convey the spirit of Soto Zen.
Finally, a bit more about "sho" which I've translated as "verification" and is one of several words used in Zen to connote satori or enlightenment. Here's Hee-Jin Kim (p. 21):
Sho (which means "to prove," "to bear witness to," "to verify") signifies the direct, personal verification of savific reality/truth through the body-mind (shinjin), one's whole being. A crucially important point here is namely, "that which verifies" and "that which is verified" are inseparably intertwined via the body-mind.... Enlightenment (nonduality) makes it incumbent upon practitioners to put the unitive vision of all things into practice, in terms of duality of the revisioned world.
Second, I've also included the original "10,000 dharmas" rather than "all things" or "myriad dharmas" because, for me, the number suggests each thing , each of the many things, as truth. "All things" is just too mushy to convey the spirit of Soto Zen.
Finally, a bit more about "sho" which I've translated as "verification" and is one of several words used in Zen to connote satori or enlightenment. Here's Hee-Jin Kim (p. 21):
Sho (which means "to prove," "to bear witness to," "to verify") signifies the direct, personal verification of savific reality/truth through the body-mind (shinjin), one's whole being. A crucially important point here is namely, "that which verifies" and "that which is verified" are inseparably intertwined via the body-mind.... Enlightenment (nonduality) makes it incumbent upon practitioners to put the unitive vision of all things into practice, in terms of duality of the revisioned world.
Practice Instruction and Comment Focus:
- Memorize the above translation of the first two sentences.
- Call them to mind during the day, especially in the seams between activities (lying down to sleep, upon waking up, sitting down for zazen, getting up from zazen, going through a doorway, starting the car, etc.). Call it to mind playfully (this is Transforming Through Play Temple, after all!) and move on, letting go of your ideas about the meaning so that they can cook.
- Notice what comes up from all sides.
- Get a clear bead on the moment of "conveying the self toward...."
- Report in your comment on the qualities of that experience.

20 comments:
Zen is really fishing without hook.
or fish!
Funny, I too got caught in this rod.
Where's the fish?
House keeping items: From my personal point of view, I don't find necessary to record your discussions. Maybe if it were a dharma talk not a dialog, in audio or in video but again, we "virtuals" (actually you "flesh-and-bone" people too) have to find the way there where we are.
Hi Dosho and all,
It seems that by posting something here I am conveying the self (and my particular delusions) toward the myriad members of the group in the hope that there will be some enlightening response. From an ego standpoint, vulnerability is one feeling-quality of the experience, mixed with a sense of curiosity and anticipation.
Gassho,
Glenda
To convey the self toward the 10,000 things to do practice/verification is illusion.
To convey myself for verification toward everything is to use my six senses to understand this world. I eat the egg, I smell and taste the tea, I touch my shoes, I hear he cardinal, and in doing so seperate myself with them. I put names on things, and use them as I see fit.
I seem to be useing a lot of ego in doing this and miss the opertunity to be with this world. Although I am tying, I miss verification of the self with all things by doing this. I create the self and other.
I convey in the world of form and this world changes in each moment. This comes across as being wrong or illusional, but this is what I have so I use it. It is just that I don't take the time to be mindful and know that this is what I am doing. I even try to convey myself toward myself instead of being myself.
a small morning bow from virtual dublin. about conveying the self: moment by moment, slightly too strong a 'will/drive' feeling occurs when i am 'conveying'. it is like wanting to conquer something, assimilate something and 'achieve' peace or stillness or integration of it. when i drop the conveying energy, experience seems to have more space, the life in my fear or sadness breathes, it becomes more naturally itself, but 'I' feel less in control. It is more intimate though, but disorienting. Feels rich to practice with.
Gassho to all, and thankyou for sharing this practice time.
Emma
I am starting my 4th year as a student of Dosho. My intention for this practice period is to better understand the genjo koan to help me verify my life and this world. It would be nice to let go of delusion and suffering. I am a slow learner, so my plan is to keep showing up and out last delusion until it leaves.
Also, I am rededicating myself to practicing Zen. I am very grateful and will support this opportunity by financially giving what I can.
Hello Everyone,
To convey the self toward the 10,000 dharmas to do practice/verification is illusion.
The 10,000 dharmas advancing and practicing/verifying through the self is satori.
I came to think of this as a system of marionettes who behave as the manipulator, but who have strings attached to their posteriors as well as their anteriors. In this system the strings do not return to one master, the master is the system, and the strings respond to entirely external stimuli. The puppet does not dance, but rather the dance 'puppets'.
This thought arose from analyzing some of my own anger and attempting to understand its origins. My mistakes arise from ignorance which results in the misery of another which results in the transmission of animosity, hostility, or at the very least disappointment, which can manifest itself in many ways through action.
At this point my metaphor appears to break down due to human free-will. I'm not 100% sure where the Buddha stands regarding free-will, but I think that we have a choice to create positivity with intention. In this sense, possibly the action is the same, but the intention is different. The old "this is going to hurt me a lot more than it's going to hurt you" speech.
Something is always sweeping through, pulling my strings, and adjusting the strings of others in front of me. Its nature is emptiness, but I assign characteristics to it depending on my state in the moment. Assigning these characteristics is illusion.
Gassho
Dosho,
I play a bit of music on the side and these 2 lines evoke that experience for me (I did a gig just last night).
I'm not a great performer: playing a formal gig in front of an audience does not seem to my natural habitat most days... but I have to do this sometimes and so I have to deal with it/ just do it.
When I'm not 'in a good place' with having to do this I sometimes tend to try to 'push' to make it work, to make myself work as a musician in that context: the musical results can be strained, effected, choked... or okay/ not neccesarily terrible music by my own standards (some people like it a bit edgy).
Sometimes I'm more comfortable playing and a little push from me can work well in going with the flow of things.
Sometimes I don't have to do anything and, as an experience, it's all done and rolls along nicely (not often!)
Some people just won't like my music regardless of how I play it. Sometimes I won't like it regardless of how I play it (how it comes out that day).
Sorry if that's off-topic, but it seems to jam with my increasingly ambiguous relationship with those two lines from Genjo-koan.
Regards,
Harry.
For me this is about the goalless goal. My words follow in (parentheticals):
To convey the self toward (To think)
the 10,000 dharmas to do practice/verification (about the practice)
is illusion. (is not reality.)
The 10,000 dharmas advancing and practicing/verifying (The practice)
through the self (expressing itself through life)
is satori. (is awakening.)
Capping phrase: When the alarm clock rings, just get up.
I am a night owl. I have to wake up at 4:00 AM every day. When the alarm clock rings I turn on the light, turn off the alarm and start repeating a mantra to myself (usually Om ka ka kabi san ma e sowa ka or Om mani padme hum), so I don’t start cursing or telling myself stories, and go about my day. Not thinking or telling myself stories at 400 AM leads to a much better day.
Here is the topic my UU church group discussed today:
Looking for Answers vs. Letting them find us.
I had nothing to do with setting this topic; and greatly appreciated the synchronicity. Thanks, 10,000 dharmas!
"Conveying oneself towards all things" speaks to the tendency "I" have to leave "my" imprint or seal of approval on reality.
I've been seeing my self do this a lot lately. "I" practice zazen, "I" try to uphold the precepts, "I"etc...
This is delusion. An excellent portion of Dosho Sensei's book is devoted to expressing Zazen as wholehearted surrender.
Capping Phrase: "I cut holes in the fabric of reality"- Henry Rollins
"The 10,000 dharmas advancing and practicing/verifying through the self is satori."
This is what surrender will allow to manifest. Since each one of us are nothing but a form of the 10,000 dharmas why would we not allow ourselves to be a vehicle of satori?
One of the biggest questions for me as a zen practitoner is “What is the - what is my - self?” Because we cannot truly say that there is no self at all, that there is a completely evacuated shell that holds no consistency of it’s own. And so “my,” “it’s own” are somehow evidently there, and it is a matter of attending to this in such a way that when we say “drop the self,” “no-self,” we are aware of the errant deportment of the self that can be dropped and remain in touch with the measured consistency of our own weight in the world. This attending includes not becoming attached to steadiness, to alot for inconsistency.
And so I find myself caught in the first three words of your translation, which does not shut down on the self in the way that “To carry the self forward...” (Tanahashi); “...by carrying forth the self...”(Kim) and “...with the burden of oneself...” (Cleary) do. In these other translations the self is taken for granted as what one wields about in the world as an object that is somehow external to what is at hand. This is to read Dogen as the rhetoritician who likes his straw men, and that is not untrue of Dogen.
But I prefer your choice of words, as it allows for the meaning of the word “to convey” to stand as expression, not simply to carry the self as a burden but for the self - as 10,000 myriad things - to be conveyed in expression. “Conveying the self” holds in reserve the self as expressed, makes room for both delusions and original face to appear.
Some lines from Wanshi Shogaku’s “My friendly advice for doing seated meditation” that I liked today:
When one knows it without stirring any thing up
Such knowing is naturally humble:
When one is illumined without setting up an opposite,
Such illumination is naturally subtle.
Hi, Everyone.
I've been a student of Dosho's for about 3-4 years now. Prior to that I sorta knocked around in a couple Zen practice centers, including some time studying/practicing with Katagiri-Roshi & Shohaku Okumua Sensei, with whom I did jukai.
"To convey the self..." This week & last I've been really focused on the "self" of this statement, especially Kyogo's statement that this "self is the self of when all things are the buddha dharma."
What does that really mean?
I was laid off from my job of 16 years a couple weeks ago & have been feeling alot of mental/emotional discomfort about that. So this has been a very vivid opportunity (an understatement!) to look at my current life & experiences through this part of the Genjokoan.
I'm too much in the thick-of-it (the thicket?) right now to say any more than that.
--Ed
Capping Phrase:
We're all just one trade away from humility, Buddy.
-Wall Street (1987)
I'm an oncology chaplain in a private medical practice. I spend my day entering spaces of fear,hope, despair and even death. How I enter those spaces matters most. If I enter with an agenda, much is lost. I see entering with an agenda as my "conveying", however if I enter without an agenda, I am "conveyed upon"...and the true reality of that moment is experienced.
Dhyan:
Regarding practice/verification (or realization or enlightenment):
the path and the goal (or the vehicle and the destination) are not two (nor are they one the way we normally think).
I hope that presents a barrier for you.
:-)
Dosho
Hi all,
happy to be practicing with you. I won't introduce myself here as I've already done it at zen forum international.
I'm also posting in my blog.
My comment: "conveying the self" is wanting to catch something fishing without a hook.
"the self conveyed" is fishing without a hook.
Capping phrase: fishing without a hook. The phase relates to the first week of practice, sometimes conveying sometimes conveyed.
In the end is all dropped off.
My Respect towards you
is a delusion for others
Your acceptance of my respect
is illusion for me
Still, the non-stop flow of my respectful words towards you,
is what make me alive,
If I stop thinking for greeting you,
I am like into great delusion,
If I didn't stop myself greeting you,
I will fall into greatest of all delusion,
If I greet God through you,
I am deluded into the delusion,
If I greet myself by greeting you,
I am actulalizing my buddha ,
If I truly a buddha,
I don not need to greet anyone, either you or me or other.
The Capping Phrase for "Conveying the self, Being Conveyed "
Is
1. My Greetings to you
Other possible capping Phrase
2. Respectfully Yours
In both these capping phrases,
Conveying of the self is attempted from one towards One and if conveyed correctly is enlightenemnet else a delusion and if not conveyed then an illusion
My respect to you
Nitin Arora
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