I stumbled on this edited snippet of a Katagiri Roshi talk the other night while looking for something else. Seems like it might be good grounding advice for those of you reading this blog and the Zen Forum International discussion about shikantaza and koans.
One person not steeped in Soto Zen said to me the other day, "I read what's being said, but don't understand a word." I hope this is different.
Btw, Roshi refers to a "Zen master" and is commenting on something this person said but doesn't give a name.
Here is a zen master’s explanation of zazen:
Here is a zen master’s explanation of zazen:
"In zazen we leave everything to the figure of zazen. It is not sleeping. It is not thinking. We must be awakened clearly."
We believe that zazen is to get tranquility by concentrating on breath. It is part of zazen. Real zazen is leaving everything to the figure of zazen. Zazen is just total presence. The figure is the physical structure of your body.
Let go of your hold of your head. Then there is very clear awakening.
"It is natural that thoughts flash on us from moment to moment."
Thoughts arising is not something wrong. Very naturally, thoughts come up. The more quiet you are, the more aware you are of how subtle thinking is. The problem is when you see a flash of thought you start to run after. Then you throw your life into what you have thought, completely becoming dragged away. We grab thoughts with our head and fabricate a world.
Peace is not inside or outside. Peace is right in the midst of the functioning of zazen. You think that by zazen you will become peaceful. At that time, peace is already outside. When you feel peaceful by zazen you feel peace inside. But this isn’t real peace and harmony. Next moment it disappears. Real peace and harmony which is blooming from moment to moment, not in the idea, but in the midst of the process of zazen.
"Even though many thoughts come across our mind, lose your hold on your head. Refrain from any fabrication, leaving a flash of thoughts to take its own course, leaving the disappearance of thought to take its own course."
“Refrain” is not hatred. “Refrain” is to be modest. Modify yourself and your attitude toward fabrication. Don’t fight or mettle. This is very delicate. We have to learn through actual practice following this suggestion.
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16 comments:
Beautiful!! This is excellent and very encouraging. Sounds like Uchiyama as well.
Al
Yes,
Wonderful stuff.
On the 'breath' thing:
How did he work that in (he was fond of Dogen and it was not something which Dogen seemed to emphasise at all, right)?
I notice your Dharma brother Nonin talks breath too.
Regards,
Harry.
K-r would generally recommend following the breath, in my view, as a provisional subject. Dogen does talk about the breath a little in the Extensive Record. I might put that up sometime.
In my case, after a few years when I could follow the breath, K-r told me not to follow the breath and that shikantaza was "What?!" (as in the 6th ancestor's "What is it that thus comes?")
Beautifully put.
"This is very delicate". Very much so! Very inspiring, thanks for posting it.
I love how the best teachers so seamlessly inspire such genuine curiosity and openness. What a gift.
"Zazen is just total presence."
If I may use my vocation as example, when I first starting working as a chaplain for a private Oncology practice, I had all these ideas about programs, support groups and everything else. After about a year of spending eight hours a day in an infusion room as the person who could just sit and listen, I realized that just being totally present with each person was the most profound thing I could do. How can it be different in this practice. For me this practice is about discovering intimacy with reality, as is my vocation. The two becomes one.
alan
Thanks, Dosho, for this beautiful post. And I really appreciate Alan's response on the importance of listening. My mother, who will be 90 this year, is still one of the best listeners I've met. I don't know if she realizes what a great gift this is to everyone around her; but I am inspired by your comments to express to her my deep feeling of gratitude for this.
Bows, Glenda
"In my case, after a few years when I could follow the breath, K-r told me not to follow the breath and that shikantaza was "What?!" (as in the 6th ancestor's "What is it that thus comes?")"
Dosho,
Thanks for the info. Out of interest, and not meaning to bust your Zen chops on this, how do you see this jamming with instructions for zazen from Dogen Zenji such as:
"Cease the intellectual work of studying sayings and chasing words"
"Cast aside all involvements"
"Give the myriad things a rest"
"Stop the driving movement of mind, will, consciousness"
"Cease intellectual consideration through images, thoughts, and reflections"
BTW, how do you interpret 'thinking non-thinking' or 'thinking beyond thinking'? Is it, or does it involve, some sort of mental vigilance, or is it best realised via a sort of mental/physical passivity, as seems to be the most touted approach?
Regards,
Harry.
Experientially, shikantaza
as "what?!" jives perfectly with the passages you quote. We were working with Bussho at the time so it was perfectly in line with what Dogen taught in that chapter.
Anyway, zazen doesn't exist apart from the teacher-student relationship and although Katagiri was a lifelong student and master of Dogen's Zen, he didn't follow it moralistically, nor do I.
Dogen was wild and creative in his reinterpretation of the buddhadharma. It is the height and breadth of irony, imv, that many of those interested in Dogen today use what he taught to slavishly follow the rule of what he said or didn't say and forget the spirit of freedom expressed in his writing.
Oh, and regarding nonthinking, the Buddha said in response to "how did you cross the flood?" "When struggling I sank and when tarrying I was carried away. It was by neither struggling nor tarrying that I crossed the flood."
"It is the height and breadth of irony, imv, that many of those interested in Dogen today use what he taught to slavishly follow the rule of what he said or didn't say and forget the spirit of freedom expressed in his writing."
Yes. It may be that people approach Dogen as being dense and inpenetrable, and so they find it dense and inpenetrable, rather than playful... in doing so maybe they assume there is some exterior or profoundly hidden meaning, or they just can't identify with it at all seeing that his 'palette' seems to be alien to many.
The thing I like about Kim's approach is that it treats Dogen as a thinker (& non-thinker etc), a philosopher and a practitioner instead of some dusty old religious relic.
Regards,
Harry.
Tathagata
Tathagata, thus come one
dropped the skandhas
under the Bodhi
Not going, not coming,
life is empty and meaningless
How wonderful!
There goes Tathagata.
just a bag of skandhas,
Nothing special.
Gassho,
Glenda
Very beautiful! Thank you for sharing.
With palms together,
Uku
Thank you, Dosho, for this strong point of view:
Dogen was wild and creative in his reinterpretation of the buddhadharma. It is the height and breadth of irony, imv, that many of those interested in Dogen today use what he taught to slavishly follow the rule of what he said or didn't say and forget the spirit of freedom expressed in his writing.
Not unrelated to "what?," but a different aspect of it's practice, from Dogen's "The Dharma for Taking Food," p. 90:
"...After bowing to Manjushri, the anja then stands in shashu and announces the meal. The words must be announced clearly with the names correct. If there is any discrepancy the dharma of receiving food is not complete, and it must be announced again."
This only goes to show that there is much responsibility in being exact.
With gratitude,
Seigen
Dear Dosho Port,
Thank you for the "snippet of a Katagiri Roshi talk" - it is wonderful to read and deeply appreciated.
~gassho~
“Refrain” is not hatred. “Refrain” is to be modest. Modify yourself and your attitude toward fabrication. Don’t fight or mettle. This is very delicate. We have to learn through actual practice following this suggestion.
Yes,
This is a real slow burner.
'Modify yourself and your attitude' without fighting or striving. Very delicate indeed (particularly to barbarians!)
Thinking non-thinking as opposed to THINK non-thinking, or thinking-NON-thinking maybe...
Regards,
Harry.
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