Another good zazen question from the e-mail box:
Does this bit of Fukanzazengi seem to you to emphasize the mental/thinking side of things as "the secret of sitting-Zen"?
"Sitting in balance in the mountain-still state, "Think the concrete state of not thinking." "How can the state of not thinking be thought?" "It is different from thinking." This is the secret of sitting-Zen." (Mike Cross trans.)
Recently I have been maintaining more of an awareness of, or alertness to, my thinking in zazen; a sort of vigilance around my thinking where I stop/drop thoughts when I become aware I'm fiddling with 'em. Previously I had just sat and, well, let it all 'hang out' a bit more. My practice now seems more awake and aware, but I wonder if it is a bit too 'taught' mentally. On the other hand, as I've found with several different attitudes/approaches to Zazen, it all seems to go the same direction eventually.
What do you think of all this?
Thank you for your question. You are asking, I think, what to do with thinking in zazen and if this aspect of sitting, thinking/not-thinking/non-thinking, is the secret and not, perhaps, the physical aspect.
First, let me offer an alternate translation to the Fukanzazengi passage you quote. This one is from the Soto Translation Project and fits with the characters and adds little other interpretive material. “Sitting in balance,” “concrete state” and the second use of the term “state” do not occur in the original and, in my view, do not accurately depict the actual practice:
“Once you have adjusted your posture, take a breath and exhale fully, rock your body right and left, and settle into a steady, immovable sitting. Think of not thinking. Not thinking – what kind of thinking is that? Nonthinking. This in itself is the essential art of zazen.”
Wholehearted zazen is to “…stop the operations of the mind, intellect, and consciousness.” Stop fiddling completely and certainly don’t fiddle with fiddling. Nonthinking, the free play of thinking and not-thinking, is always arrived at through not-thinking. Importantly, nonthinking cannot be reached through philosophizing.
Not all styles of zazen are the subtle method that can be discovered, what Katagiri Roshi used to call “Buddha’s zazen.” If they were, why would so many of our Zen ancestors calloused their butts? Lots of zazen styles will lead to wandering aimlessly in the weeds for aeons, clouding the body-mind more and more. That’s one reason working intimately with a teacher is important.
In wholehearted zazen, the modern way of separating mind and body has little utility. In Fukanzazengi, Dogen entangles instruction on what we might call the mental and physical aspect – vividly showing this point.
“You have gained the pivotal opportunity of human form. Do not pass your days and nights in vain.”
With best wishes for your practice,
Dosho
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12 comments:
Dosho,
Good post.
In your view, is following the breath a form of nonthinking?
Best,
Al
"Wholehearted zazen is to “…stop the operations of the mind, intellect, and consciousness.” Stop fiddling completely and certainly don’t fiddle with fiddling. Nonthinking, the free play of thinking and not-thinking, is always arrived at through not-thinking. Importantly, nonthinking cannot be reached through philosophizing."
Thanks, Dosho. Very interesting.
So, in practical terms, do you concur with the instruction that when we naturally find ourselves engaging in thoughts in Zazen we should just stop doing that sort of thinking?
And that this should not be a result of a special sort of mental effort or vigilance outside of maintaining the posture (of body/mind, not just sitting) of Zazen?
Sorry if this seems obvious in what you have already said, but there seems to be subtle (and not-so-subtle) variations on all this going around.
Regards,
Harry.
Hi Al,
Following the breath is thinking - there is a breather and a breath and thought is directed toward the breath and away from other things. Breath might be a transitional object, like a kid with a blanket, but it isn't nonthinking. In nonthinking, awareness of the breath arises and passes.
Palms together,
Dosho
Dosho,
Thank you.
Regards,
Al
"Nonthinking, the free play of thinking and not-thinking, is always arrived at through not-thinking. Importantly, nonthinking cannot be reached through philosophizing."
The above sentences seem contradictory in that
the free play of thinking and not thinking might involve philosophizing if free play is truly allowed. But because thoughts cannot be eliminated, Do you mean that they should be stopped before they are completed? When that is accomplished, would that be nonthinking?
For the sake of clarity, I'll copy from the comments here and then respond:
"So, in practical terms, do you concur with the instruction that when we naturally find ourselves engaging in thoughts in Zazen we should just stop doing that sort of thinking?"
Yes. Let go of thinking. Even if you find yourself unnaturally engaged in not-thinking, let go of it.
"And that this should not be a result of a special sort of mental effort or vigilance outside of maintaining the posture (of body/mind, not just sitting) of Zazen?"
Thinking about the posture is also thinking - another transitional meditation object like the breath. Necessary to some extent as is other thinking but it isn't not-thinking or non-thinking.
D-z used the phrase "dropping body and mind" much more frequently to describe zazen than any other, including "shikantaza."
.......
My comment earlier: "Nonthinking, the free play of thinking and not-thinking, is always arrived at through not-thinking. Importantly, nonthinking cannot be reached through philosophizing."
Anonymous' question: "The above sentences seem contradictory in that the free play of thinking and not thinking might involve philosophizing if free play is truly allowed. But because thoughts cannot be eliminated, Do you mean that they should be stopped before they are completed? When that is accomplished, would that be nonthinking?"
Thinking can be completely dropped, a.k.a., not-thinking. Vital to know this for oneself. It isn't enlightenment, but we can drop body and mind.
Non-thinking gushes forth of it's own accord through not-thinking. In non-thinking free play, thinking/philosophizing and dropping subject and object in not-thinking are like the maple leaf falling, showing front, showing back.
D-z also referred to this as "self enjoyment samadhi."
Interesting post, thank you.
I don't think thinking or nothinking. Thoughts come and go. I just sit. And eat. And sleep. And work.
Everyday is a day for continous practice.
With palms together,
Uku
"Thinking can be completely dropped, a.k.a., not-thinking. Vital to know this for oneself."
I have entered into short periods of non-thinking only to have my awareness of the state trigger a thought about it.. (This is interesting, I'm not thinking.. oops!) This has happened everyday off and on for about six years. I seem to be able to enter a nonthinking state readily enough now but it only lasts a short time before thinking again and then stopping and repeating the cycle..
My question is, When you say Completely Dropped, Do you mean dropped for the length of the sitting, or dropped completely for short periods within the time of the sitting?
Thanks for your earlier answers.
"Thinking can be completely dropped, a.k.a., not-thinking. Vital to know this for oneself. It isn't enlightenment, but we can drop body and mind."
Dosho,
Yes, there's nothing there to be enlightened.
What's missing? What is it that is enlightened?
As you see it, is non-thinking freely coming forth in not-thinking the 'Big E' then?
Regards,
Harry.
I've been bothered by this post since I first read it last night.
In both implicit and explicit ways, it draws distinctions between subtle and unsubtle zazen, wholehearted and halfhearted zazen, and Buddha's zazen and someone else's zazen.
The old Chinese teachers rarely, if ever, raised such questions. Indeed, they rarely talked about practice at all.
I know so little of Dogen that I can't say whether or not he taught a notion of "correct" zazen, but if so, I would tend to exercise great caution.
Because, as the old Chinese fellows taught us, the moment we draw distinctions, we plunge into the abyss.
I know, because I spend most of my time there...
Thanks,
Barry
Barry and all,
Interesting questions and push back on this. I've only got a few minutes now but I want to make a couple quick points.
First, not making distinctions is another distinction. The best we can do is to transgress knowingly. I read the old Chinese (and Indian, Korean, Japanese, etc.) ancestors as continually pointing out the Way, transgressing left and right. I think of the "rolling up the blinds" koan and D-z, for instance, speaking about zazen, "though there are people who make Buddhas, not all people make Buddhas."
Second, check it out for yourself. I may be just blowing gas bubbles in the tub for all you know. But maybe not.
One of the impacts of non-thinking is the sense of really doing with this wild and precious life what needed to be done.
Okay, with dog all over me as I write, I gotta get ready for the Thursday night study group.
Peace out - and deep thanks for your practice, persistence and challenges.
Oh, and I'll get to the other questions tomorrow after really only touching on Barry's here.
Dosho
***SWITCHBOARD LIGHTS UP***
Dosho Said:"D-z used the phrase "dropping body and mind" much more frequently to describe zazen than any other, including "shikantaza.""
Sorry to add to your question-answering woes, Dosho, but I think 'dropping body and mind' is often thought of in terms of one dramatic 'crash-bang-wallop' type event to be achieved or maintained via Zazen... do you feel that it might be accurate to also consider this 'dropping off' as happening from moment to moment: arising/ dropping off, arising/dropping off, arising/dropping off...i.e. as an on-going function?
Regards,
Harry.
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